A Conversation About Conversations

This guy whos name was Helmut.....Hes german...we were talking. About conversarions. I mentioned Aspergers and somehow we got t o talking.

I am out of it and cant write anything very coherently but I wanted to remember a few concepts that we talked about....apologies if this doesnt make any sense .

a) spontaneous versus planned conversations
obviously sponatenous better but i never get into spontaneous convos and if i didnt try so hard to start convos with others then id never talk to anyone; problem is when you try to plan ahead of time in your head what you are goign to say to someone and what you are going to talk about it it doesnt sound very spontaneous and sounds forced.
but twice now i have had spontaneous conversations with Helmut and his partner which is probably more spontaneous conversations than I've had with anyone for the whole year up to now and with the same person, that's pretty damn good

the first was when we were in the dining hall and they had just finished up a meeting. on their way out they said hello to me and i found out they were visitors and they talked about what they liked about LV and asked me questions about it,. That started a long conversatoion about intentional communities and community in general that was fascinating and lasted at least an hour or more.

then monday i felt a bit awkward around them as i felt like when i said hi i diidnt get a great response but maybe i was imagining it who knows. so i gave up trying to talk to them aagin even though i really liked them because i thought well maybe it was just a one time thing. cus it seemed king od awkward. but i sat at the picnic table they were at tonight at dinner more because i just needed a place to sit than because i thought i would get involved in any conversations. but after sitting there for a while there was a lull in converrsation and without really planning it i turned to them and i said "i read more about the (Indian commne) and read about how they used food poisoning to try to rig the election at the end" and it started a short conversation about that, then i askd them how their day was and they asked me how mine was and that started the convo about aspergers and communication

So the point is since they were spontaneous they were good conversations but 99% of the time spontaneous convos just do not happen for me. no one usually initiates convos with me as sad as that sometimes is and if iwant to talk ro someone i have to initiate but that means i have to plan what i am going to say so it does feel a bit less natural but what cvan you do?

b) Anyway we talked about leaving space in conversationsfor people to talk and think, and about how if you are comfortable wiht yourself other people will be more comfortable with you. If you can say things confidently and without as much anxiety people will be less scared of you. Also if youcan be comfortable enough with yourserlf to have spaces in conversation not filled with conversation people will feel more comfortable and be more likely to say something becasue they have had space to think. I think that would be a good thing and want to try doing this more.

c) he said if you are thinking about yourself and how you are coming across and how nervous you are and so on that you have no space within yourself to hear or percieve the other person. you are not liosteningthen. So to be more present you should be ok with yourself i guess. i dont know. i asked him what it would like to be "present" with someone and "percieve" them more than i already do. i ask questions to show im listening , repeat statements, etc. i feel like i am present with people.

but he then said something interesting, he said, it's not about what you say as much as what you are,
that people will be able to TELL if you're interested and listening without you saying that you are, I dont know what I think about that. Communications classes always teach the importantance of active listening don't they? I believe it is important to let others know tyou are listening actively. But, of course, the thing is, it comes down all to nonverbal language which I and everyone else with AS suck at completely. Somehow NT people KNOW that other people are interested and or connected WITHOUT ANY VERBAL LANGUAGE to indicate so. And that drives me crazy! Because of course I can't tell if someone is interested or not or tuned into what i am saying unless they say so; so I guess I assumed they felt the same. So i think the message was that I should just focus on conversing wiht someone and .... I don't know, this is where it gets too abstract for me. I feel like I can't do any more than I do to be "in connection with" and listening to someone during a conversatino bt there seeems to bea missing piece eluding me here.

How do you listen to others without worrying about your own stuff and having that come across? Any ideas?? it might not be someting that is changeable ..... I don't know .

It all seemed rather profound to me but the non concrete stuff went over my head. I did grasp the idea of people knowing other people were interested without them having to say it but I have NO IDEA how in the hell to do it or use the concept practically.

The nonverbal language deficit in AS drives me crazy. Aspies talk too much because they don't know how to communicate nonverbally or understand nonverbal messages; NTs think we're crazy and don't understand why; we don't understand them because they won't say anything explicitly; etc etc whole chain of events.

I think the only thing I can take away from this is to give people more space in conversations and feel more comfortable with yourself during conversations to try to create a higher level of comfort and connections during conversation.

Of course I have always felt that I could talk to someone until I was blue in the face most of the time and still not really feel a sense of connection to them....Something to do witth this is why but I cant quite put my finger on it nor know how to change it .

I did very much enjoy the conversation though and it did satisfy my need for deep intense meaningful emotional conversations. Gotta love thsoe German guys. Who knew you could get nto a convo that good with someone you just met - only at a commune- as far as I can see at least some people here are used to very open communication.

The biggest problem with Aspies and convos is that we need RULES for everything and conversation is nothing if not a forum of communication supposed to be devoid of rules - ie - spontaneous, intuitive. We have to use logic to figure out what other people intuit and it would seem to me that that takes a LOT away from the game which is a damn shame.

OK I'm tired now...

Kate

What a Long, Strange Trip It's Been

Well, it's been a while. Yes. I wonder if any of my blog friends are still out there. Writing has been difficult lately because of all that has been happening. My roommmate in Bend gave me four days notice to leave. THAT was fun! I went into problem solving frenzy and tried to find every possible environmentally friendly living option that I could get to which numbered.....um.....Oh yeah! Zero! That was fun, too.

At the very last minute a friend suggested an ecovillage outside of Eugene. Otherwise known as hippie commune. At the VERY LAST MINUTE. I called them and asked if I could stay for cheap while they processed my application to rent an apartment for long term. They said yes. But I had no way to get there. At 5pm on Thursday I finally found someone who agreed to take me on Saturday - and a friend to let me stay in Bend one extra night.

My love of oldies paid off - he was the stepson of an Australian woman I know from oldies chat. Never know where connections are going to come from, huh?

He was a very nice, courteous and caring kind of guy. And his car was fortunately safe for me. We had a pleasant drive over.

The place I'm at is an educational center, has yurts, tents, cabins, and a few apartments. Lots of woods, etc. Common dining hall, thingd made out of cob.

So I stayed in a large apartment for a week , at the end of which they denied my application. At first I thought it was because my previous roommate gave a bad reference, which I overheard walking by the office. That was fun! Not. No, I don't know why I put it down.

But then I was told it was because they thought that my "sensory issues" were not compatible with living here. That that is basically disability discrimination did not occur to me until much later .

They did however let me stay for a short time in another unit while I looked for places to live in Eugene. Not as long as I had hoped, of course, but at least they let me stay. They are nice, generous, compassionate people, other than, of course, the whole disability discrimination thing.

At the moment I have a week left and still no place to live. Also fun - NOT. I have hired someone to do my grocery shopping for me as we are 40 min from nearest town (Eugene) and I don't drive. I hired someone to drive me to look for apts. I have done pretty good with independent living here, I'll say hat much. I have cooked everything on a hot plate.

So kudos for that but finding a place to live would be nice. I have one more possibility for Tuesday. If anyone has any ideas let me know.

I do love Eugene - ecocapital of the world .Most eco friendly city I have ever concieved of . They have a 140 page "eco friendly" business phone book, people actually know what chemical sensitivity is here, and tie dye and farmers markets abound. There is nothing more that I love than a good hippie city.

Except, of course, a place to live in said city.

So please I could use all the good wishes I can get....Thanks!

I just thought I'd do a quick update in case anyone was wondering where I'd gone to

I'm trying to be strong and am lucky to have support from friends....and an occasional family member although a good half of them are very against me trying to be independent it seems...

Kate